MO investor day | MO Message Board Posts

Altria Group Inc.

  MO website

MO   /  Message Board  /  Read Message



Rec'd By
Authored By
Minimum Recs
Previous Message  Next Message    Post Message    Post a Reply return to message boardtop of board
Msg  13302 of 13311  at  4/18/2023 8:01:41 PM  by


 In response to msg 13301 by  spowanda3
view thread

Re: MO investor day

Is it possible that Altria is paying for a portion of the JUUL settlements with the State and that is why they are saying it's an ordinary loss?
No, the two are totally unrelated. The nature of the $12.5 billion income tax loss (ordinary vs capital) is an income tax code issue, and is just a classification argument. If MO now ends up paying legal settlements in this Minnesota lawsuit, that would be additional ordinary losses over and above the $12.5 billion they lost on their investment in JUUL. 
However, I highly doubt MO will pay any significant money to Minnesota in this suit or any JUUL lawsuit in general. They might pay some nuisance amount to just make it go away and save on legal fees, but their legal position in this instance is strong. Essentially, MO held JUUL as a passive investment, and did not have a majority of ownership or control of the board. Furthermore, most of the advertising conduct that JUUL is being held liable for, preceded MO actually owning their stake in JUUL.
Minnesota has a looney left government (and especially Attorney General).  He dragged MO into the lawsuit arguing what I speculated they would several years ago when someone else asked about legal liability for MO. He says that MO is liable because as part of the agreement when acquiring 35% of JUUL, MO allocated some of their retail shelf space to JUUL products, and for a short period of time put JUUL coupons on certain packs of cigarettes. However, neither of those things could remotely be said to have resulted in the rash of youth vaping.
Of course, in a trial with ignorant jurors, anything could happen, but MO would have a very strong case to get any adverse verdict thrown out in an appeal court. Quite simply, if what MO did with JUUL results in additional legal liability, then nearly every passive investment in the US could result in legal liability to the investor. That would essentially destroy the entire concept of limited liability that is the heart of the entire corporate and investment structure in the US.
We'll see when the MN settlement terms are disclosed. My guess is that it will just be another settlement paid by JUUL, as they have been settling with other states without going to trial. As I said, I expect that MO will not pay anything, or just pay some nominal amount & agree to not market to underage users, which it already their position and practice. If MO is stupid enough to pay significant money on this, it is just one more instance of MO being foolish with shareholders money.

     e-mail to a friend      printer-friendly     add to library      
Recs: 4  
   Views: 0 []
Previous Message  Next Message    Post Message    Post a Reply return to message boardtop of board

Financial Market Data provided by