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Msg  50070 of 50225  at  10/12/2019 9:43:49 AM  by


 In response to msg 50069 by  oginvest2
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Re: More OT- Re: OT Canada Election - no more Trudeau separatism???


Re: More OT- Re: OT Canada Election - no more Trudeau separatism???

Good afternoon,

When you use the term 'separatism', it signals you do not understand quebecois nationalism. Sovereignty association as proposed by quebecois nationalists of yore meant a number of common institutions: security (armed forces), economy. Think European Union (EU). - - - The quebecois nationalism your read in books or the one and only question people really voted (and will vote) on: Do you want to separate from the rest of Canada or not. This is at the core of the separatist strategy...make people THINK they would automatically (or close to it) get shared services and not lose their passport.  When the passport issue is put forth, support for separation drops.  They want their cake and eat it too.  Many separatist supporters assume that voting YES to a separation vote makes it a 'done deal'.  We know it is not.
The movement in favour of sovereignty association is for all practical purposes dead. Please note that the Canadian federal state made a number of initiatives to co-opt quebecois nationalism over the years. - - - I agree , but as it was 20-30 years ago, it is still here and will come in another shape.  Support for separation still exists, but I think it remains marginal.  It is more a 'protest' position more than anything else.  Quebec already has grabbed a lot of powers and continues to do so.  It is like they are already separating without calling it so.  And the federal government allows this, fearing that calling it out will re-generate a strong separatist movement.
Please note that the socio-economic factors that initially drove quebecois nationalism in the 1960s have evolved in the favour of French-speaking quebecois. They used to be near the bottom of the socio-economic pile with only southern European immigrants and indigenous peoples occupying a lower rank.
These days bilingual quebecois of French Canadian origin earn the highest incomes in the province. [edited for clarity]- - - Do you think quebecois wants to get "independant" (is it a better word for you ?) to get higher income ? if so, then You don't understand quebecois nationalism.... I agree, it has little to do with economic well being, but at the same time, many in Quebec deny that Quebec is getting more out of equalization payments than they pay into the 'confederation'.  They simply don't understand, although the equalization calculations are not transparent.  The media and the artists exercise a huge amount of propaganda and many people are too lazy to verify the separatist claims.  Without the equalization income, Quebec would not be able to afford its socialist programs.
The quebecois opposition to shale gas and oil pipelines is annoying but no more so than similar opposition in British Columbia and far less costly to western Canada than BC's opposition.- - - Not worse, but if your think there was opposition in the TM pipeline you ain't seen nothing yet in the case of a pipeline thru quebec.... Again you are right, but I think it has more to do with ignorance of the part of those who are anti oil and gas.  I bet that if you asked a person on the street what shale drilling is all about, you would get a blank stare.  But still they are against it.  If you tell people that oil is imported from the Middle East by ships in the St Lawrence you would ge the same blank stare.  But get oil from Western Canada and you see people get mad.  People are rightfully mad that a train carrying oil caused many deaths (it still is an accident) but they don't seem to care that pipelines (especially brand new ones) are much safer.
In a nutshell, as is often the case, disagreements are based on misunderstandings, ignorance and ill will.  
Federal power in Canada is slowly rotting away as minority pressure groups in all provinces have found ways to influence the majority, if not impose their will.  I think this why we are seeing voter participation dwindling at all levels.  No matter how/what you vote, it is likely that what you support will be overturned by minority pressure groups. 

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